00:00
(upbeat music)
00:09
- Good afternoon, everyone.
00:11
Welcome and thank you for joining us
00:13
for this WorkSafe webinar as part of 2021
00:17
Health and Safety Month.
00:18
It is great to have you with us.
00:20
The topic of this session is
00:22
"Manual Handling Training - there's a better way."
00:25
My name is Cameron Ling
00:26
and I'll be your host today.
00:28
While our programme of sessions are virtual,
00:31
we still have the same items of Health and Safety Month
00:34
that we do every single year
00:35
and that is to keep you up to date.
00:38
The theme for this year is
00:40
"You learn something new every day."
00:42
We've structured this session as a brief overview
00:45
of WorkSafe insights,
00:47
then a conversation between myself and the panel
00:49
outlining the most effective ways of controlling the risks
00:54
of hazardous manual handling.
00:56
We hope to outline this morning how you can learn more about
00:59
your rights and responsibilities and what support services
01:02
are available.
01:04
It's now time to introduce our guests who are joining us
01:06
for this discussion.
01:08
First of all, Samantha Harrison.
01:10
Principal Ergonomist, WorkSafe Victoria.
01:13
Welcome Samantha.
01:14
- Hi Cameron. Hi everyone.
01:16
- It's great to have you with us.
01:17
Also joining us is Jay Lewis.
01:19
State Inspector, Ergonomics SafeWork New South Wales.
01:23
Good afternoon, Jay.
01:24
- Afternoon Cameron. Afternoon all.
01:26
- Also joining us is Lucas Kowalski,
01:29
Manager, Return To Work, Insurance
01:31
WorkSafe Victoria. Welcome Lucas.
01:33
- G'day Cameron.
01:34
- Great to have the three of you join us.
01:36
I'd like to start first of all with
01:38
a little bit of background.
01:40
Hazardous manual handling is the biggest cause of injuries
01:43
in Victorian workplaces and accounted for over 35%
01:47
of workplace injury claims last year.
01:50
WorkSafe Victoria and WorkSafe New South Wales
01:53
have come together to address the reliance
01:56
on hazardous manual handling training
01:58
as the sole means of controlling risk.
02:01
SafeWork New South Wales has developed guidance
02:04
to assist employers meeting their obligations under WHS law,
02:09
working closely with WorkSafe Victoria to ensure consistency
02:13
is maintained across borders.
02:16
Could I start by asking you Samantha,
02:18
when does manual handling become hazardous manual handling
02:23
and what injuries are typically caused?
02:26
- Yeah, thanks Cameron.
02:27
So manual handling is anything that you do, you know,
02:31
you're moving your body, you're picking up items
02:33
and those sorts of things.
02:34
So, and it becomes hazardous when there are repeated
02:39
or sustained or high force movements
02:44
that are being exerted,
02:46
or there might be things like sustained awkward postures,
02:49
repetitive movements, exposure to sustained vibration
02:53
and also things like handling live people or animals
02:56
or loads that are difficult to grasp or hold or unstable
03:01
when you're picking them up.
03:02
And it can cause lots of different injuries
03:05
and they're injuries that we call musculoskeletal disorders
03:09
or MSDs.
03:11
So they include things like your sprains and strains
03:14
so there might be wrist injuries those sorts of things.
03:16
Back injuries, back injuries are one of our biggest concerns
03:20
from a musculoskeletal disorders perspective.
03:24
Wrists, arms, shoulders, necks, legs, neck, hernias,
03:27
those sorts of things
03:28
and chronic pain can result from hazardous manual handling
03:31
as well.
03:33
- Well, thanks for that Samantha for that overview.
03:35
Can I stay with you for a second?
03:36
What do we typically see from employers to control
03:39
the risk of injury from hazardous manual handling
03:42
and does this approach meet their legal obligation?
03:46
- So a common approach is often to use or provide workers
03:52
with generic how to lift training.
03:55
So this is things like instructing workers
03:58
to bend their knees and keep their back straight.
04:00
And that's often provided at the commencement
04:02
of their employment and sometimes on an ongoing basis
04:06
throughout their employment as well.
04:08
Then the reliance is then on the workers
04:10
to follow these techniques or principles going forward
04:13
as a way to try and protect them from being injured.
04:16
And that training is often used as the only control measure.
04:21
So the OHS Regulations 2007
04:25
state than an employer may only
04:27
rely on training as a sole means of controlling a risk
04:31
in circumstances where it's not reasonably practicable
04:34
to use a higher order risk control.
04:37
So those include things like eliminating the hazard
04:40
in the first place.
04:41
So can you actually remove the hazard,
04:43
the need to lift something manually
04:46
or substitution or engineering.
04:48
So can you actually implement some other controls
04:51
into that workplace to prevent that injury.
04:54
- I'm interested Jay,
04:56
is this consistent with what you experience
04:58
in New South Wales?
04:59
Where does New South Wales see training sit
05:02
as a control measure?
05:04
- Yes Cameron, it is.
05:05
So here in New South Wales injuries
05:07
from hazardous manual tasks,
05:09
they account for around 30% of all workplace injuries.
05:13
And what we're finding is exact same as Victoria.
05:15
There's a real over-reliance on training
05:18
actually to control this risk of injury.
05:20
I'd also say that there's a strong argument
05:22
that in many instances that generic how to lift training
05:25
wouldn't even be considered a control measure at all.
05:28
So in New South Wales,
05:30
the law states that a Person Conducting
05:32
a Business or Undertaking or a PCBU
05:35
must follow a risk management approach
05:37
when they're controlling the risk
05:38
of a musculoskeletal disorder occurring in the workplace.
05:42
As Sam spoke about that,
05:43
that means they need to put control measures in place
05:46
that are in line with the hierarchy of control.
05:48
Eliminate it where you can or isolate,
05:50
substitute, re-engineer those controls and actually get rid
05:54
of the source of the risk.
05:56
The use of administrative controls,
05:58
such as training and procedures, et cetera,
06:00
that should really be only used to control
06:03
any other remaining risk after you've got to the
06:06
cause of the problem.
06:08
- Okay, Lucas can I jump over to you now?
06:11
How long typically does a worker have time off
06:14
with these kinds of injuries that Jay and Samantha
06:17
are talking about and how are injured workers supported
06:20
in getting back to work?
06:23
- So Sam mentioned the type of injuries.
06:25
So we mostly see the musculoskeletal MSD injuries
06:30
coming post a manual handling type event.
06:33
There isn't a straightforward answer in terms
06:36
of the most common time off work
06:37
but what we do see across the scheme most recently
06:39
is about three quarters.
06:40
So 78% of injured workers do return to work
06:43
within six months of their claim being submitted
06:47
but every injury is different.
06:48
The recovery and return to work will also differ
06:50
but really generally about 78% return to work
06:54
within six months.
06:56
Speaking to the scheme support,
06:58
I think I might just talk to the difference between
07:00
WorkSafe and our agent panel.
07:02
So WorkSafe is the manager of our insurance scheme
07:04
in Victoria but the claims management here in Victoria
07:07
is delegated to a panel of four agents.
07:10
The day-to-day case management is overseen by case manager
07:13
with support from some other roles such as
07:15
mobile case management.
07:17
But there also is a panel of occupational rehab providers.
07:20
There's 24 in Victoria that are approved by WorkSafe
07:22
and that panel is accessed as an additional
07:26
support service.
07:27
So there are some circumstances post-injury
07:30
where the employer and the injured worker will require
07:33
some additional support, some specialised tailored support
07:36
from one of their consultants
07:38
and that may include a workplace assessment onsite
07:41
and even to help with preparing a return to work plan
07:43
as well.
07:44
- Lucas, how can an employer best support their employee
07:48
once an injury has occurred?
07:50
- I think what we really encouraged from the very beginning
07:53
is opening and keeping open the lines of communication
07:56
but what will happen after the injury has been sustained,
08:00
the employer will receive a completed claim form
08:03
from the injured worker
08:04
and they have 10 days to provide that to their agent.
08:06
It's a bit different for a claim with a mental injury.
08:09
That's three days for the first component
08:11
but for a MSD injury,
08:13
the employee will have 10 days to provide
08:15
that to their agent.
08:17
The agent will then follow standard claims process
08:21
to assess whether or not there is a entitlement
08:23
to compensation post that injury,
08:25
but even whilst that's happening,
08:26
the employer should still remain engaged
08:28
and in contact with that injured worker.
08:30
What we also encourage employers to do
08:32
is start thinking about what the next step would be
08:35
once the injured worker has a capacity for work.
08:38
So thinking about the work that that worker was doing
08:40
and how that would be modified perhaps
08:42
to support a return to work on light duties,
08:45
once that injured worker has a capacity for work.
08:49
There are return to work compliance codes as well.
08:51
The employers can access online on the WorkSafe website.
08:54
They really provide step-by-step guidance as to what
08:58
employers should do as part of that return to work
08:59
planning process.
09:01
One thing that we definitely encourage employers to do
09:02
is when they do speak with their injured worker
09:04
offer to meet with them in their GP, for example.
09:07
That's where they can talk about return to work.
09:08
They can propose the return to work plan
09:11
and have that collaborative discussion,
09:12
and they can also be supported by their agent
09:15
so that way that conversation can happen with the agent,
09:19
with the injured worker,
09:20
with the GP and also the employer as well.
09:23
- Can I come back to you, Jay.
09:25
You touched on this briefly before about
09:27
an over-reliance on training
09:29
but in response to this over-reliance on training
09:32
as a means to control injury from this hazard,
09:35
what have you developed in New South Wales?
09:37
- So yeah, SafeWork New South Wales have developed
09:40
a fact sheet that actually outlines what information
09:43
should be provided to work as part of
09:45
their hazardous manual task training program.
09:48
So like in short,
09:49
a workplace should be providing training on
09:51
the actual specific manual task risks
09:54
and the measures they've got in place to control them.
09:56
So in other words, train the workers in the control.
09:59
You know, how to perform manual tasks safely,
10:01
including the use of any aids, tools, equipment
10:04
and associated procedures.
10:06
You definitely want to be giving that information
10:08
and training on your manual tasks risk management
10:10
your internal processes for managing the risk,
10:13
including what are the risk factors,
10:16
what's the source of the risk
10:17
so you know where the problem lies
10:19
and definitely how to report any problems
10:21
or maintenance issues as well.
10:22
So that whole risk management gambit.
10:25
We've also adopted a Queensland tool that allows a business
10:28
to actually conduct a self assessment of their
10:30
overall system for managing hazardous manual tasks,
10:33
which is a really good thing because a business needs to
10:36
have a robust and appropriate system in place before they
10:39
even think about what type of training information
10:40
that they want to provide their workers.
10:43
And as with all jurisdictions, us, Victoria,
10:45
and everybody around the country,
10:47
we have great inspectors that are continually offering
10:49
that advice and guidance whilst their out in the field
10:51
as well.
10:52
- Okay, thanks for that, Jason.
10:53
Samantha, what is WorkSafe Victoria developing
10:56
in this space?
10:57
- Yeah, so I'm really pleased to say that we have also
11:00
developed similar guidance for Victorian workplaces
11:03
and work employers as well.
11:05
And so we've worked really closely
11:07
with New South Wales on this.
11:09
So it includes much to the same content as
11:11
the SafeWork New South Wales guidance
11:14
but includes language that's specific to the OHS regulations
11:18
that we have down here in Victoria.
11:20
So the guidance has recently undergone consultation
11:24
with key external stakeholders and employee groups
11:27
and unions and it's actually now available on our website.
11:31
- It's good to see we're learning from each other
11:33
right across the country.
11:34
Samantha, why is it important that there is a consistency
11:38
amongst our state health and safety regulators?
11:42
- Yeah, so it's really important.
11:44
We have employers who operate within Victoria
11:47
but also across into other jurisdictions as well.
11:51
We have a lot of cross border employers
11:53
from between New South Wales and Victoria
11:56
and providing that consistency of messaging
11:59
reduces that regulatory burden on employers
12:02
and employees as well.
12:03
So we've worked really closely,
12:05
WorkSafe Victoria and SafeWork New South Wales,
12:07
as well as with other jurisdictions around Australia,
12:11
as closely as possible to provide that balanced
12:14
and a nationally consistent framework to ensure
12:18
that the health and safety of workers and workplaces
12:20
is secured across the nation. Yeah.
12:24
- Samantha, I'd like to zero in on the employer.
12:27
What should an employer broadly know about
12:30
hazardous manual handling?
12:32
- Yeah. Certainly firstly, as an employer,
12:35
you have a general duty to make your workplace
12:37
as safe as is reasonably practicable.
12:40
So that involves three sort of key parts
12:43
which align with our regulations.
12:45
So the first one is identifying any work that involves
12:50
hazardous manual handling and then determining
12:53
whether or not that work poses a risk of MSD.
12:55
So and where that risk exists
12:58
they need to ensure that they're eliminating
13:00
or reducing that risk so far as is reasonably practicable.
13:03
So preventing the injury before it occurs.
13:06
And then the follow up on that is actually doing a review
13:08
and a revision of those risk control measures
13:10
should there be an injury.
13:12
So one of the key points is to actually involve employees
13:16
in the health and safety issues.
13:19
So that's through that consultation piece
13:20
and that can result in a safer workplace.
13:23
And it's a really important thing for employers to do.
13:26
It's a requirement under our act and regulations
13:30
and including those health and safety reps
13:32
where they're actually at the workplace as well.
13:35
- Lucas, what's your take out here?
13:37
What do you think an employer should be doing
13:41
to make return to work easier from an insurance perspective?
13:44
- Yeah, I think it's really important to reinforce
13:47
the early intervention steps undertaken by the employer.
13:50
So engaging with your injured worker
13:51
as soon as they've been injured,
13:52
supporting them through that claims process where you can
13:56
but also offering to engage with them
13:58
and their treating team.
13:59
A lot of people will be involved,
14:00
but I think once there's some collaboration
14:03
that early intervention can really make a difference
14:04
for that injured worker but also for the employer as well.
14:07
- Great. I suppose, Samantha, I wonder if you could
14:10
provide us with any real life examples of cases.
14:14
- Yeah. So we have some case studies on our website
14:18
and there's one in particular that's based in,
14:21
from a maternity hospital here in Melbourne.
14:24
They'd been experiencing injuries associated
14:26
with using maternity beds at the hospital
14:30
and they'd been relying on training as one of their
14:32
key measures to try and reduce those injuries.
14:37
Now for those who were actually able to log in,
14:40
in our audience,
14:41
able to log in for yesterday's sessions around systems
14:44
thinking they will have heard about the PHIRES project,
14:47
which is a patient handling injury review of systems.
14:50
So using this process and taking a systems thinking approach
14:53
it enabled the hospital to investigate the injuries
14:56
that were incurring, you know,
14:58
in relation to these beds and look at what
15:00
they could implement at higher system levels
15:03
within the organisation.
15:05
And it also highlighted as to why how to lift training
15:09
wasn't working for them.
15:10
So through this process,
15:12
they identified that installing new equipment,
15:14
a new bed end enabled them to reduce those risks
15:19
and of course ended up reducing the injuries
15:22
that their staff were sustaining as a result of
15:25
the work that they were doing on those beds.
15:26
- Well, thanks everyone for this insight.
15:29
I'm seeing that the provision of training for workers
15:31
is an important part of protecting employees
15:34
from manual handling harm
15:35
but it should never be used as the only control measure.
15:39
You've all been very clear on that message.
15:42
What resources could you recommend for our audience
15:45
if they'd like more information?
15:48
- Yeah, Cameron I can answer that one.
15:50
So we've got some slides.
15:52
First slide, you'll see our Hazardous Manual Handling
15:56
Compliance Code.
15:57
So this actually provides further information
16:00
on the hazardous manual handling,
16:03
including useful tools to assist in that
16:05
identification, assessment and control of risk.
16:08
You'll also see on this slide that there's the
16:12
copy of the SafeWork New South Wales
16:15
Hazardous Manual Handling Tasks, sorry, Fact Sheet,
16:18
New South Wales have different,
16:19
slightly different wording to us.
16:21
And then on the next slide, if we can bring that one up,
16:24
that is in relation to our new guidance
16:27
that we've developed.
16:28
And this is the fact sheet that we were talking
16:31
about earlier that's just newly been
16:34
published on our website along the lines of
16:36
the SafeWork New South Wales.
16:37
So this is a hazardous manual handling training fact sheet.
16:41
And on the final slide is just information about
16:45
our OHS Essentials Program.
16:47
So this is a key program for smaller employers
16:50
who can actually obtain information and guidance
16:54
from independent consultation services
16:57
and they're paid for by WorkSafe.
17:00
So it's a great, free opportunity for workplaces
17:04
to take advantage of that.
17:05
And of course the WorkSafe Victoria Advisory Service,
17:10
which operates 7:30 AM to 6:30 PM, Monday to Friday.
17:13
They're a great source of information as well.
17:16
- Great. Thank you for that, Samantha.
17:17
Thank you to all three of you for a real quality overview.
17:21
I'd love to get to some questions because there are a heap
17:24
coming in from our audience.
17:27
I'll try and direct questions as best I can
17:29
but please feel free to jump in.
17:32
If you want to add anything at all,
17:34
or someone's better suited to answer the question
17:36
please feel free to jump in there.
17:38
I'm going to ask this one first up because a lot of
17:40
our audience are wanting the answer to this one.
17:43
How does the regulator view online training videos
17:47
with a test component as the main source
17:50
of manual handling training?
17:52
Who wants to start us off?
17:54
- Yeah, I can take that one Cameron,
17:55
and it'll be pretty similar answer I would say
17:58
from New South Wales as well.
18:00
So training can never be relied on as the sole
18:03
or the primary control.
18:07
When we think about training,
18:08
it should actually be in the form of actually
18:10
teaching people how to use the equipment that they have
18:13
in place to actually reduce the risk of injury.
18:17
Our regulations state within our regulation 27
18:22
in the hazardous manual handling recs,
18:24
it actually states that you can't use training
18:27
as your primary control
18:28
if there are higher order controls available to be used.
18:32
So need to look at those elimination,
18:34
substitution, engineering,
18:36
looking at that hierarchy of control
18:37
that Jay mentioned earlier and working out well
18:40
are there actually other things that we can put in place
18:42
before we use the training?
18:43
That training is a key component
18:45
from an administrative perspective because you do need
18:48
to provide training on teaching people
18:49
how to use the equipment,
18:51
but teaching them how to lift is not an effective control.
18:55
- Great. Thank you, Samantha.
18:56
Jay would you like to add anything to that?
18:58
- Yeah, definitely.
18:59
And Sam's covered off really well.
19:01
One little thing I would add is if a workplace,
19:04
if I'm starting with a workplace tomorrow
19:06
and they say, yep, Jay you're doing an induction,
19:07
here's a video on how the body works.
19:11
As long as the workplace is treating that
19:12
as provision of information. Okay?
19:14
So it's not a control.
19:16
It's not necessarily going to protect you from harm
19:19
in the workplace,
19:19
but it's a bit of information about how the body works
19:22
and the biomechanics, if they then tie that into
19:25
so when you're out in the workplace and you're exposed
19:28
to forceful demands or exposed to awkward postures
19:31
that may hurt you, then talk to us about how we can fix it.
19:34
So in that instance, I won't even say it's a control.
19:37
That's a provision of a bit of information
19:39
and a bit of knowledge,
19:40
but it won't do anything to protect the worker from harm.
19:43
So it's how it's used.
19:45
It's a context it's using which is super important
19:48
because one thing I will add is
19:49
what we don't want workplaces to do
19:51
is to focus all their budgetary and their resources
19:55
into having this new beaut online program
19:57
and spend many, many, many dollars on it
20:00
and then they'd actually don't have a budget
20:01
to actually fix the thing that's hurting people
20:03
in the workplace.
20:03
We don't want them to choose one over the other,
20:06
we'd rather than go to the workplace and fix it there
20:08
than spend a big budget on an online program
20:11
that doesn't do much.
20:13
- Yeah. Great point, Jay. Thank you for that.
20:15
Next question.
20:16
I'll steer this one to you Lucas from your perspective
20:19
first of all but then perhaps Samantha and Jay
20:21
you can add in from your perspectives.
20:24
How do we distinguish between hazardous manual handling
20:27
injuries sustained at work and at home?
20:32
- So interesting question and very timely
20:35
for the current environment that we're operating in
20:37
in so far as work from home.
20:39
We have seen a change in the type of injuries
20:43
that have been submitted or occurred, sorry,
20:46
whilst workers have been working from home,
20:48
things such as sitting at the desk
20:50
and obviously poor posture, et cetera,
20:51
but we know that things can occur in the home
20:55
that during the work component, for example,
20:57
whilst working from home that may have also been able to,
21:00
I guess, occur in the workplace.
21:02
The difference I guess is the type of injuries
21:04
will be very much more so those desk type injuries
21:07
sitting at your desk and using that type of equipment.
21:09
But I guess there's probably less of a chance of a risk
21:13
at home with the working from home component
21:15
but I think it definitely will be one for Jay and Sam
21:17
to expand a little bit more.
21:19
- Well, to you Jay. Do you want go first?
21:21
- Thanks, yeah no, that's fine.
21:23
So, and trust me as an inspector
21:25
and when we're out on the work side,
21:26
we hear that a lot oh, you know, what was Jay doing
21:29
on the weekend?
21:31
Did he hurt his shoulder doing something else not at work?
21:35
And I don't want to talk Victoria but New South Wales,
21:36
it's a no fault system.
21:37
So work needs to be a contributing factor. Okay.
21:40
So, and for someone to submit a claim, yes,
21:43
they were doing work and work was a contributing factor
21:46
and then it can sort of get looked at after that.
21:48
One thing you'll find with MSDs,
21:52
sometimes a lot of workplaces are looking for
21:54
that one instance, that one thing.
21:56
That what we're doing right at the point
21:58
and it is part of the, as being part of the
22:02
the worker's compensation system,
22:03
you need to report what was actually happening
22:05
right at the time.
22:06
MSDs are a cumulative disease that can happen over time.
22:08
So it can be exposure, exposure, exposure,
22:11
someone could be exposed to those risk factors for the day,
22:15
for the month, for the week
22:16
and then when something happens on the Thursday afternoon
22:19
and the injury occurs well,
22:21
there was so much contributing factors
22:22
throughout the whole week beforehand that led to it.
22:25
It's not like I was working on a roof and I fell off
22:27
or I was using machine as unguarded and I degloved myself.
22:31
So it's knowing that if that exposure is there
22:34
and work's a contributing factor
22:35
the workplace does need to look at that.
22:37
- I think I can probably add to that as well.
22:40
Absolutely agree with Jay.
22:41
There will be some circumstances where an injured worker
22:44
may have an underlying condition
22:46
and they might not even be aware of it.
22:47
But there's an event or an incident at work
22:50
that may be that trigger to cause that particular ailment
22:54
to become a reason why they can't remain at work.
22:57
So we do treat each injury case by case,
23:00
and obviously the circumstances will differ as well,
23:01
but it really is
23:04
was there a workplace event that has added to
23:07
that incapacity for work
23:08
and does that continue to impact the individual's inability
23:11
to return to work as well?
23:13
- Samantha, can I put the next question to you
23:15
that a number of our audience would like answered.
23:17
Any suggestions on any good innovative ways
23:21
of delivering manual handling training
23:23
that workers have responded well to?
23:27
- Again, you know, pushing back to looking for those
23:30
controls that are actually upper,
23:32
higher up there in hierarchy of control.
23:34
Now we did talk about that training is a great way
23:38
to provide information to staff.
23:41
So it's really key to do that.
23:43
And we are in a environment now where a lot of our training
23:47
is online, webinar-based, you know, those sorts of things
23:50
have a look at what we're doing now.
23:52
It's webinar based.
23:52
We used to be in person for these
23:54
Health and Safety Month presentations.
23:56
So it is a tricky thing because you do need to provide
24:00
that information to your workers in a form that
24:03
they're going to take on board
24:06
but again, I would push back and say
24:08
it's actually about providing higher order controls
24:12
in order to prevent the injuries from happening
24:14
in the first place.
24:16
- Great, thank you for that Samantha.
24:17
Jay, I'm going to put the next one to you
24:19
but again, please feel free anyone to jump in here.
24:22
Given work cover is a no blame system.
24:25
What are some strategies to ensure the injured worker
24:28
takes ownership and responsibility for their recovery,
24:32
particularly where degenerative conditions
24:34
and non-work-related factors are also contributing factors
24:38
to the injury?
24:41
- Yeah, well obviously everybody has an onus
24:44
to follow their with return to work plans and programs.
24:47
So when I think as Lucas was quite rightly saying before
24:49
you have that open dialogue and collaboration
24:52
from the very beginning between injured workers,
24:55
they're nominated treating doctor and their workplaces
24:58
and the better that consultation and collaboration is
25:01
the better the outcomes are going to be.
25:03
And it's actually making sure that that plan is appropriate.
25:07
The certificate of capacities are appropriate
25:09
and then for the worker to actually follow that
25:11
because it's being designed
25:13
by qualified health practitioners.
25:15
So if it's designed correctly,
25:17
then everybody has a responsibility to follow
25:20
what's actually in there.
25:21
That would be my advice for that.
25:24
- I could probably add as well to a little bit
25:26
what Jay was talking to.
25:28
There will always be circumstances where
25:30
there may be other medical conditions that will be
25:32
impacting someone's return to work,
25:34
but what we're very much focusing on now as a scheme,
25:37
and I'm sure the same in New South Wales is
25:39
what supports can we introduce to start to work through
25:43
some of those barriers.
25:44
Something that we are experiencing as a scheme at the moment
25:47
is secondary mental injury, post physical injury as well.
25:50
So an injured worker who may sustain an MSD injury
25:53
post manual handling, a back injury, for example,
25:55
and then it does manifest to a mental health condition
25:58
for a number of reasons.
25:59
So for example, you know, not being able to be part of
26:02
their family function at home
26:03
and that then becomes a barrier to return to work.
26:05
And we will work with that injured worker
26:07
and their treating team to introduce support services
26:10
to help with that return to work.
26:12
It won't be straightforward in all circumstances,
26:15
but there are always options I think,
26:17
and we should always try to explore those options.
26:20
There may be opinions sometimes that influence our approach
26:23
but I think it's important to be able to step away
26:26
and really think about what supports
26:28
we can introduce as a scheme and include
26:30
as part of that recovery and return to work plan as well.
26:33
- Great. Thank you for that.
26:35
Next question on here is it's for a specific situation.
26:39
I'm happy for anyone to jump in here.
26:41
I have no idea how you're going to answer this,
26:43
but good luck with it.
26:44
It's no secret that healthcare workers
26:46
have a culture in the workplace that you just have
26:50
a sore back and that is normal.
26:52
As a midwife myself, I have to get into some
26:54
pretty weird position sometimes to deliver babies.
26:58
What do you recommend to prevent injury in birth suite
27:01
and emergency situations?
27:04
- Yeah, that's a really tricky one
27:07
because there will be situations in some workplaces
27:10
where you just, you may not be able to plan for it.
27:13
So it's looking at using information about
27:18
what you know about the work
27:20
and identifying those potential points of
27:23
hazardous manual handling that might actually occur
27:26
and looking at again, looking at equipment that might be
27:29
available in those circumstances.
27:30
Now, I've worked in healthcare previously.
27:35
I understand that there are situations where, for example,
27:39
you might be trying to get someone out of a car
27:41
in an emergency situation, for example,
27:42
and that's a really difficult thing,
27:44
but making sure that you've actually got available equipment
27:48
in the first place to be able to use
27:49
and that people are actually trained on how to use
27:51
that equipment is one of the key parts to help reduce
27:55
that potential risk.
27:56
There might be circumstances where
28:00
you're going to need to get into those difficult positions
28:03
and we just want to try and reduce those
28:06
so far as is reasonably practicable.
28:08
And that's why the legislation is written that way.
28:11
We understand that you may not
28:14
be able to eliminate everything,
28:16
but we want to reduce that risk
28:17
so far as is reasonably practicable.
28:20
- Thanks for that Samantha.
28:21
Lucas, you mentioned consulting with GP,
28:24
so I think I'm going to put this one to you
28:27
but again, please jump in.
28:29
What can be done if the treating doctor won't engage
28:33
in the return to work process and meet or discuss
28:36
the possibility of the worker returning,
28:40
it's just dropped down my page, sorry about that,
28:41
returning to work with the employer?
28:45
- What we tried to do first is explore why,
28:48
why the circumstances are the way they are
28:50
with respect to that GP not engaging with the agent
28:53
or with the employer.
28:54
So has something happened and is that influencing
28:57
why they won't engage?
28:59
If the employer hasn't been able to establish contact
29:02
with the GP, for example, and they've also tried to arrange,
29:06
for example, support via the mobile case manager
29:09
and an agent and if we've also tried to seek support
29:12
from an occupational rehab provider
29:15
for a case conference, for example,
29:16
we also have support via WorkSafe clinical panel.
29:20
The WorkSafe clinical panel run support programs
29:24
for our agents but also for treating health practitioners
29:28
and they can make contact directly with the
29:31
treating health provider to explore that individual's
29:34
recovery return to work and also the barriers.
29:36
So, you know, what's happened again to explore why they're
29:39
I guess not supportive of contact as part of the
29:41
return to work process.
29:43
Usually we do find that something has happened
29:46
and that's influenced their opinion about engagement
29:48
and they've decided not to
29:49
but we'd like to offer some support to try
29:51
and turn that around
29:52
and one of the support services can be
29:54
the WorkSafe Clinical Panel as well.
29:56
- Great, thanks Lucas.
29:58
And some of your answer may have touched on the answer
30:00
to this question but I'll put this one to you, Jay.
30:03
Do supervisors' employers need to have
30:07
any formal qualifications prior to training staff
30:10
and identifying risks and controls
30:13
or should qualified professions be brought in?
30:18
- Well, a bit of both there, Cameron,
30:21
because to be a supervisor
30:22
then you need to have that knowledge,
30:24
skills and experience to actually supervise workers.
30:27
So if it's their responsibility to go through
30:29
and you know, it depends on what once again,
30:32
and they're really good questions
30:33
when we're looking at training.
30:34
The best thing we need to get
30:37
which is what Sam's been talking about is training
30:39
in the control.
30:41
So if you have a supervisor and you know,
30:43
you've got a hazard within the workplace to deal with
30:45
hazardous manual tasks
30:47
and there's an actual set control in place
30:49
well they actually should have those skills
30:51
to train workers this is how you do the job.
30:53
This is how you use machinery number X.
30:55
This is the process for loading pallets.
30:59
So they need to have those skills to be able to show that
31:02
and if they don't then you need to actually have
31:04
some sort of training operator within that business.
31:08
Okay. So if we bring the conversation back to training
31:12
in a control, not necessarily, it's not like sort of doing
31:16
oh we're going to just do generic
31:17
working at heights training,
31:19
which has sort of along those same lines
31:21
where you need those skills and experience for that,
31:23
the training should be in the control.
31:26
It's great to get those external people who have the great
31:29
allied health.
31:31
Ergonomists, occupational therapists,
31:33
physiotherapists, exercise physiologists.
31:35
They can come in and use their skills
31:37
and look at that exposure that workers are exposed to,
31:41
work with the workplace,
31:42
work with the workers in actually looking at
31:44
why are those issues there.
31:46
It's normally because of the design of the workplace,
31:48
it's the layout, it's the systems of work,
31:52
it's the characteristics of the load.
31:54
Looking for that root cause as to why something
31:56
is hazardous.
31:58
If they work together to do that,
32:00
then they provide the training in actually how to fix it.
32:02
That's what I'd be looking at for that Cameron.
32:06
- Thanks for that, Jay. Sam, I'll put this one to you.
32:10
Are there any risk assessment tools specifically designed
32:14
for hazardous manual handling available from WorkSafe?
32:18
- Yeah. So within our hazardous manual
32:20
handling compliance code,
32:22
we actually have in the appendices section,
32:24
we have a great setup where it actually steps you
32:28
through the process of how to identify
32:32
hazardous manual handling in the first place.
32:33
So what are those particular movements
32:35
that you're looking for that workers might be performing.
32:39
And then it steps through identifying that, you know,
32:42
how you might identify the risk of MSC.
32:44
So it talks about the duration of the activity
32:49
and you know, what the limits around that potentially are
32:53
as well as the different types of movements
32:55
and where that movement can create that risk of MSD.
33:01
And then also steps you through that whole process
33:03
and then looks at things like your environmental factors
33:06
that might increase those as well.
33:08
So there's sort of a number of steps
33:10
within that compliance code
33:12
which are really useful to step you through that.
33:14
We also have another piece of guidance
33:17
which is called "Improving Risk Controls after MSDs"
33:20
I think it's called.
33:21
My apologies, but that's aimed at larger employers
33:25
and that actually steps in through a process of
33:29
encouraging to look up and out at their system
33:32
rather than down and in at the individual who has
33:35
been injured as a result of the work that they're doing.
33:38
And within that there's also a checklist of
33:40
how they can go through that process
33:43
and work out what areas within their system
33:46
might've actually been a problem area that has actually
33:49
led to this adverse outcome.
33:51
So there's plenty of tools available.
33:54
We've got a review and revision of risk control
33:56
measures tool as well which, you know,
33:57
you use after an injury's occurred
33:59
and you need to do that processes of
34:02
reviewing and revising the risk controls
34:04
associated with hazardous manual handling as well.
34:07
And the same would be for SafeWork New South Wales.
34:10
They've got plenty of tools on their website
34:11
from a checklist and risk assessment tool perspective.
34:17
- Yeah, I was going to add if that's okay.
34:19
- Yeah go for it.
34:20
- Really good point from Sam,
34:21
because I think one of the challenges with return to work
34:24
and a GP certifying someone with the capacity
34:28
for return to work is being comfortable that
34:31
where they're going back to is a safe place as well.
34:33
So to support that return to work plan,
34:36
that employer actually reviewing the mechanism of the injury
34:40
and making changes to perhaps reflect what's happened
34:45
and to prevent that injury.
34:46
If that's communicated through the return to work
34:48
planning process,
34:49
there's a level of confidence for the GP
34:52
and the injured worker that sending the worker
34:53
back into that workplace won't aggravate that condition
34:57
or perhaps create another injury as well.
34:59
So really, really support Sam's point around
35:02
assessing the risk and also the function
35:05
that has caused the injury,
35:06
because that can be a big part
35:07
of a successful return to work and communicating that
35:10
to the GP and the injured worker as well.
35:12
Sorry Cameron.
35:13
- No, not at all. Please, keep that jumping in.
35:15
It's great to get the information
35:16
and I've just been sent through to the link
35:18
that you both discussing there
35:21
www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/hazardous-manual-
35:26
handling-training-fact-sheet
35:29
or the same worksafe.vic.gov.au/
35:32
resources/compliance-code-
35:36
hazardous-manual-handling
35:39
to access what Samantha and Lucas are talking about there.
35:43
Lucas, can I direct the next one to you?
35:46
I think you've just touched on it a little bit
35:47
on one of your earlier answers
35:49
but just to clarify for our audience,
35:51
how much does an existing weakness or injury impact upon
35:56
an injury aggravated at work?
36:00
- There's a legal test that's at the beginning
36:05
of a claim process that will assess
36:07
the significant contributing factor of a particular injury
36:10
and where that incapacity is coming from.
36:12
So it will differ from case to case.
36:13
There is no broad brush answer.
36:16
I think it's about assessing where the incapacity
36:18
is coming from and what's the driver of that incapacity.
36:22
So the agent will look to balance both
36:25
because we want to ensure that we're not aggravating
36:28
even more so the pre-existing weakness or condition
36:31
by proposing something as part of a return to work plan.
36:33
But it's a difficult question to answer without having
36:36
all the claims circumstances to look through
36:38
but there will be a piece around there being
36:41
a significant contributing factor of post
36:44
that workplace injury to the incapacity
36:47
and that has to be taken into consideration
36:49
because then we know that that can be
36:51
the reason why someone can't return to work
36:55
and even though there is a preexisting condition there,
36:58
it will really also depend on the function
37:00
and the type of work
37:01
that the worker is doing in the workplace,
37:02
part of the return to work as well.
37:04
So a lot of number of factors,
37:06
it's very difficult to answer case by case. Yeah.
37:08
- Understood, Lucas.
37:11
- Sorry. Can I just throw a little bit in there because
37:13
they're really, really interesting and great questions.
37:16
What I'll say to that is
37:18
the best thing a workplace can do
37:20
and I think Sam touched base on it with
37:21
the resources about the systems thinking
37:24
and not looking down at the worker but
37:26
up and out of the system
37:27
and what we don't want workplaces to do is say, yep,
37:30
a worker got hurt, what was their condition beforehand?
37:34
If they're exposed to risk, they're exposed to risk.
37:36
And that's the proactive intervention that we want people
37:38
to deal with.
37:39
If someone has to, you know, pack 180 cartoons an hour
37:42
and every pallet's on the ground,
37:44
they're exposed to forceful demands
37:46
and repetitious movement.
37:46
Now I could be doing the job,
37:48
Lucas could be doing the job. We're both exposed.
37:51
Just because I've got a shoulder that may be a bit weaker
37:54
than the Lucas' and I get injured
37:56
and Lucas may never get injured,
37:57
we're both being exposed. And a good proactive workplace
38:01
will go, all of their workers are exposed,
38:03
let's reduce or eliminate that exposure.
38:06
Waiting for an injury to occur
38:08
and then sort of trying to tackle it then
38:10
you're always going to be pushing it up hill later on.
38:12
You should be going, if a worker is exposed they're exposed
38:15
no matter, you know, if they may not get injured
38:17
but there's an exposure there.
38:18
And the same analogy it's, you know,
38:21
you could talk to a builder and they've gone
38:22
oh mate, I've been a builder for 20 years
38:23
and I've never fallen off a roof.
38:25
It doesn't prevent them from having fall arrest
38:27
or fall prevention just because they've never fallen.
38:30
They've been exposed for 20 years.
38:32
We wouldn't take that.
38:33
We wouldn't turn around and go that's all right, mate,
38:35
you've done a circus high wire course. You've never fallen.
38:38
You don't need to worry about edge protection.
38:40
It's the same principle for exposure to risk for MSD.
38:44
- Can I add onto that then Jay with this next question,
38:47
that's just popped up from a number of our audience.
38:50
Is there any data that proves limbering up exercises
38:53
prevent manual handling injuries?
38:56
- There's some research.
38:58
The research that around there leans towards
39:01
and does say that no, stretching programs
39:04
don't overly reduce injuries.
39:06
Okay. So for that to occur that they really need to be
39:09
super specific to the exact task,
39:11
to the exact person and really honed in.
39:14
So no stretching programs and warming up.
39:16
They're great to get people there.
39:18
They're great to get them together,
39:19
but you could go through and stretch and warm up
39:22
for half-hour but then if you're exposed and exposed
39:25
and exposed, you're exposed for the whole shift.
39:28
Okay. So it'll almost be like, you know,
39:31
athletes warming up before they go for a game of footy
39:35
or that up north up here or south,
39:36
you know, have different codes
39:38
but if the actual playing surface is full of holes,
39:40
it doesn't matter how much you warm up.
39:41
You're going to do your ankle.
39:42
You're going to do your knee because the environment
39:44
is the source of the risk.
39:47
So it can play a bit of a role
39:50
but if someone said I'm doing stretching
39:53
so therefore we're managing manual handling
39:56
I say, you're not, you know, no you're not.
39:58
It's great to get the workplace together
39:59
at the start of the shift, it's great for morale
40:01
and it's good to do a bit of warming up
40:03
but if you're not fixing what's causing the problems,
40:06
warming up won't fix the problem.
40:08
- It's a great comparison you make.
40:10
We won't get into a debate about which footy codes better
40:12
because we might be here a little while Jay.
40:14
- Either either.
40:17
- I'm conscious of time but I do want to get to a few
40:20
of those questions that the audience are throwing into us.
40:24
And please, excuse my ignorance
40:26
if I don't know exactly what some of the terms may inhibit.
40:30
Is a PCBU responsible for workers manual handling
40:34
risk management if they are working from home?
40:38
- Yes. Yes. A PCBU, it's just a term that we use
40:41
in New South Wales.
40:42
It's the same as what you'd call an employer in Victoria.
40:45
So a Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking
40:47
encompasses yeah employers, self-employed people
40:50
but it's a business so yes they are. Yep.
40:54
- Great. Thank you.
40:55
- Same as an employer. Yeah.
40:56
- Fantastic. This one, perhaps Samantha,
40:59
I'll put this one to you.
41:00
Retraining is commonly used as a control after a worker
41:04
is injured.
41:05
Do you have any suggestions on how we can change the culture
41:09
to focus on other controls?
41:11
- Yeah. So we often talk about,
41:15
and we talk about review and revision
41:17
of risk control measures.
41:18
So we've often talked about in the past,
41:21
and we've used the saying here at WorkSafe now and then
41:25
is name, blame, shame and retrain.
41:29
And often that we see that where an employee has been
41:34
injured at work because the employer sees them
41:38
having done the wrong thing so they provide retraining
41:41
as a method to stop them from doing that wrong thing again.
41:45
We know that training is not an effective means to
41:50
change that behaviour, for example.
41:52
So again we want to look at those higher order controls
41:57
that actually prevent the injury in the first place
41:59
but there is that really important process of review
42:02
and revision of risk control measures
42:05
following a hazardous manual handling or an MSD,
42:08
there are certain requirements under the regulations that
42:14
you know, stipulations that say this is when you need to do
42:16
a review and a revision of risk control measures
42:18
for hazardous manual handling
42:20
but it's a really important process.
42:21
And training plays a part in that it should be about well,
42:26
we need to train them on how to use the controls properly
42:28
if they haven't used them and the controls are there,
42:31
but training, not retraining on how to lift.
42:34
It's actually looking at our system.
42:36
Why did that person not use the equipment that was there
42:40
available for them?
42:41
Is there something else within the system of work
42:43
or the whole taking that approach to look at
42:46
the whole system of work in the organisation to go well,
42:50
have we actually got too many things coming in at once
42:54
and therefore we're just overloading that person with
42:58
tasks to do and they don't have time to grab the equipment
43:01
that would actually help them in the first place.
43:02
So no training is not an effective means
43:06
to stop people being injured. Yeah.
43:09
- Fantastic. Thank you so much for those great responses.
43:12
Thank you to everyone who has sent questions in.
43:14
I apologise to those questions I can't get to
43:18
and there's plenty more coming in.
43:20
If you do have other things you need to follow up
43:21
I'll give you a little bit of information shortly on that.
43:25
Just before we do leave this session right now
43:29
I'd like to ask each of you in turn,
43:31
what would be your message to employers today?
43:34
Starting with you, Jay.
43:36
- Yeah. Thanks, Cameron.
43:38
I'll say look for the source of the risk.
43:40
Look for why something is hazardous in the first place.
43:44
And the most important aspect about that is
43:46
you must do it in consultation and collaboration
43:49
with your workers.
43:50
So talk to them, how to find and fix the actual
43:52
hazardous manual tasks and look at why they're there
43:55
in the first place.
43:57
- Thanks for that, Jay. And you, Lucas?
43:59
- Although employers have various obligations
44:02
they're not alone.
44:03
So there is support through the agent.
44:05
There is also support through the occupational
44:08
rehab provider and even Sam's talked about
44:10
the OHS Essentials Program that's even before
44:12
the injury perhaps to think about manual handling.
44:14
So there is support available to the employer
44:16
just to look for it and definitely have a chat
44:18
to their agent or search the WorkSafe website.
44:22
- Thanks for that, Lucas. And what about you, Samantha?
44:25
What would your take out be for our viewers
44:27
around hazardous manual handling?
44:29
- Yeah so obviously in addition to the requirement
44:33
to comply and that the compliance benefits
44:36
of controlling hazardous manual handling risk
44:39
by using those higher order controls like mechanical aides
44:41
and the redesign of tasks,
44:43
those higher order controls can actually lead
44:46
to productivity improvements in the workplace.
44:49
So in short, we actually see many duty holders who
44:52
have looked at hazardous manual handling
44:53
made an investment in those improvements
44:56
and that is actually translated into an improvement
44:59
in their businesses overall.
45:01
- Well, that's been a high quality discussion today
45:03
about a very important topic.
45:05
Thank you to our audience for joining in
45:06
and engaging us with those questions.
45:08
But thank you to our panel.
45:09
Samantha, first of all, thanks to you
45:11
and good luck with everything that you're doing.
45:13
- Thanks, Cameron. Thanks, everybody.
45:15
- And thank you to you, Jay and all the best with your work
45:18
with WorkSafe New South Wales.
45:20
- No worries, thanks Cameron. Thanks all for attending.
45:23
- And big thanks also to you, Lucas.
45:25
- Cheers. Thanks Cameron.
45:27
- We hope that you've found, as the audience,
45:29
this session lively and informative.
45:32
Just an important note to remember.
45:34
If you do have anything you need to discuss urgently,
45:37
there is the WorkSafe Advisory Line and Emergency line.
45:40
So please utilise that.
45:42
We're going to make a note on the screen shortly,
45:44
a list of some of the contacts
45:46
that we've talked about today.
45:48
If you have any requests for further information,
45:51
we recommend you to please get in touch with us.
45:54
Thank you so much for tuning in today. All the best
45:57
(inspirational music)